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Without the extra room, they'd have had to stick to swaying.
I wasn't at that show, but your review makes me wish I were! Sounds like a blast.
Your site looks cool. I'll keep an eye on it!
The wannabe portion was meant to explain that they _seek_ the adulation of the crowd. I've been to many GD concerts. The adulation is natural, and the Dead are almost blissfully unaware of it (in their actions). YMSB _encourages_ the crowd to behave in a certain way, that's the difference.
Other than that "name", the rest of my post clearly pointed out that they are talented, and that I like their music. If only I could have actually heard it last night...
The vast majority of my reviews are raves. A very few are rants. The rants obviously touch a nerve with fans of that band (naturally, and obviously).
Not to keep losing the point, if the show were billed as come to a mosh pit and talk all night while a band we all like happens to be playing in the background with horrible sound engineering (but hey, they're awesome and the music would be great if you could hear it and didn't already know it by heart in your head!), then by all means, last night would have been a great success.
As for Adam, I went out of my way to call out his superb playing, noting that he was a standout. I'm sorry if I personally think that people like Cody Kilby, Guthrie Trapp, Bill Cooley, etc., are better. That doesn't take away _anything_ from Adam, who clearly is "one of the best".
The sound issue is something of a puzzler; I've seen them about 30 times, and have only had that issue in rooms that no one gets right (except Phil Lesh somehow).Their soundman, Ben Hines, almost always has it right.
Now, about the "smug & obnoxious": I certainly haven't found them to be that way either onstage or in the brief interactions I've had with them personally at shows. They generally tend more toward "self-effacing". Again, maybe the venue wasn't the perfect match, and maybe they had an off day.
On the crowd being there more for the party - I've certainly seen people at shows that fit that description, just like at the Dead, and plenty of other bands. I don't think it's all that uncommon or even a jamband phenomenon - Vassar Clements used to talk about his time playing with John Hartford and Old & In The Way as a revelation because the audience actually listened to the music. He said that before that he played to people who seemed indifferent, except they'd "give you a hand if you played something they knew". And, speaking of John Hartford, I believe he wrote all the marijuana songs Yonder plays on a regular basis.
Anyway, if you like the music, try 'em again sometime, somewhere. They may not be bluegrass, exactly, but they can be an enjoyable show. Go over to the live music archive (archive.org) and stream some of their shows. You seem as though you want to like them.
I suspect that I would like them a ton more in an outdoor setting.
I don't know if you saw my response to some of the comments earlier, but I did spend the entire morning (a couple of hours) listening to them, so I have no doubt that I like their music. It was _this particular show_ that just didn't work for me (unfortunately, at all!)...
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
Just like the uninitiated who go to Dead shows, it takes some adjustment if you do not know what you are getting into. Yonder shows are for getting out, shaking your bones, and having a good time to their brand of bluegrass/newgrass. A casual, 'corporate like' night of sitting in your seat, being quiet, and clapping between songs it is not.
Sounds to me that the promoter picked the wrong place for the band to play in Westchester. Give them another shot when you can sit on a blanket outside and have more space to do your thing. FWIW, my wife will only see them outside so I know where you are coming from.
Best regards,
Gary
Even so, I think there were two problems that were fundamental last night:
1) The sound just sucked, regardless of all of the other distractions, and that made it hard to overcome anything else (for me)
2) When people scream to each other (in conversation) through the entire length of the songs, I find it hard to count them as "fans", no matter how much they "groove to the music"
Live I've said a number of times above in the other comments, I did listen to them more this morning, and I will continue to do so. I think they make excellent music.
People who go to shows to socialize should go to a bar, enough said. There are plenty of people who go to concerts to talk, I can't stand it and it baffles me. If possible, I move away from them. Unfortunately, you had seats.
http://www.iclips.net/allgood2009.php
Gary
1) The sound at the venue
2) The crowd (if they're very different from the last two shows)
I'm betting and hoping that both will be great! :-)
I am sorry you and Lois had a bad experience at the Music Hall. We have tried lately to bring in some bands with a younger demographic than our regular patrons, and we are evaluating the results. I thought the band was excellent musically, which is of course why we wanted them there in the first place, just like with Keller Williams a couple of weeks back. However, if we wish to continue to invite these kinds of bands, we'll have to adjust how we deal with an audience that prefers to stand throughout the show and expects to party as much as listen to music. We might decide that this is simply not what The Music Hall should be about, but the jury is still out on that one. For one thing: having already intoxicated people smoking anything in an old wooden building freaks me out, and we have a zero-tolerance with anyone who gets caught lighting up, no second chances. The problem is catching them in the act. Some lessons to be learned for sure, but I can't say I enjoy the thought of having to police our patrons.
I agree that patrons who purchase the best seats should have the best view. Maybe younger shows should simply be general seating instead.
Few comments/replies:
Starting times- Since parking can be tricky in Tarrytown, we try to allow some flexibility, up to about 15 minutes as a rule of thumb so that most people get a chance to get inside, especially if the headliner comes on right away. When there's an opener we usually go closer to showtime. Also, since we're desperately short on ladies' room stalls, we try to hold the show a few minutes if there are a lot of women stuck in line.
I do get your point, though and will keep a closer eye on the clock.
Ticket Prices:
Comparing a full-service "dinner theater" place like BB Kings with a traditional theater is apples and oranges. At BB Kings, most people spend significantly more money than just the ticket price. For most Music Hall concerts, we do not break even until we sell some 550-600 seats or so. Sometimes a busy bar will make up for lackluster ticket sales, but there are very few windfalls in this game.
For most acts ticket prices are usually a fairly straightforward equation between Artist Fees, Production and marketing costs and the number of seats in the theater (843) If you wish to compare ticket prices for the same artist, I would propose to make a comparison between different size theaters. The same artist you come to see at The Music Hall will usually cost more at The Ridgefield Playhouse (a lot fewer seats) and slightly less at The Paramount in Peekskill, which has about 150 or so more seats than we do. I wish I could say we were raking in the big bucks, but as evidenced by some of the wear and tear apparent at The Music Hall this is not the case...
Band comments, etc.
I will not answer for what was said by the band from the stage, I'll leave that up to the band members in question. If they really made fun of patrons who had paid good money to listen to them, I would be disgusted for sure. Since I wasn't there for the first part of the show I didn't hear anything myself. Maybe, in a backwards kind of way, they felt sorry for people they knew would soon find themselves in the middle of a party they would probably not enjoy.
By the way: I mentioned I was late getting to the theater. This was for reasons unrelated to the concert, so my not doing my usual (dreary) pre-show speech was in no way meant to put any distance between us and Yonder. I still stand by the choice of bringing them to the Music Hall for their musical qualities. My favorite part of the show were the unamplified encores, where the acoustics of the theater carried the sound beautifully.
In conclusion: when we invite a certain artist, we always invite their fans by extension. I would never begrudge Yonder fans to enjoy these shows the way they want to, and at the same time, I want our regular patrons to get a chance to discover new music. It is always terrible when you realize that on a given night, the two groups cannot both have a great experience and that there is very little you can do about it. Maybe "party shows" are not what The Music Hall is best suited for, maybe we could even open a second venue someplace that would lend itself better to a standing crowd.
Eventually, when the younger fans turn 40, they will want to sit down too, and maybe that's when these bands should start playing The Music Hall and other seated venues.
Sorry for the long post... I REALLY appreciate feedback from patrons, whether it is raves or constructive criticism. We are very serious about being a welcoming and relaxed venue for great music in Westchester and every unhappy patron is a cause of concern, especially if they are regulars. I hope you enjoyed the Dave Mason concert tonight better and that we get to see you back soon.
PS-Hadar, can you contact me at feedback@tarrytownmusichall.org ? I have something I would like to discuss with you.
I can't speak for all the other Yonder fans who are over 40 (there are *lots* of us), but I certainly don't want to attend any sit-down show.
Ever.
Music is, in my humble opinion, a full-contact sport.
That said, I have an honest question for you (please don't think I'm being cheeky, this is a sincere question!):
Do you listen to YMSB at home? Meaning, do you enjoy their music (for the sake of the music) when you aren't dancing to it, and when you're not sharing the experience with others?
For me, the answer is yes. I listened to them _before_ buying tickets, and have listened afterward as well, and both times, have found them to be excellent.
If Yonder's music weren't so good, this planet's best dance party wouldn't naturally spring up whenever it happens. But it *is* that good -- so the world's best dance party *does* spring up whenever they play!
I think your idea of having a dance-free zone in the balcony is excellent! If that idea were combined with general admission, people would naturally and easily gravitate towards like-minded people. Assigned seating, more often than not, causes me to be surrounded by people I'd rather not be surrounded by -- and causes me to be separated from my friends (and somehow I always end up centered behind three very tall people).
You've inspired me! :-)
I apologize for the delay in responding myself. I was offline for 24 hours, including 3 wonderful hours spent at Tarrytown Music Hall last night enjoying Dave Mason (the subject of another post, coming in a couple of hours)...
I will answer each of your points, and attempt to be brief (so difficult for me, I know):
1) Stand vs Sit: All I ask is to _know_ in advance. I might make one choice, others (like Michael, who responded below), may make another. The last thing I would want is for you to _not_ schedule shows that give fans access to great acts!
2) GA is great (though it should also be pointed out that people will likely be standing all around you). That said, one idea is to reserve the balcony for seating only, where people will be asked to sit if they're standing. Then a single show can serve both audiences adequately.
3) I understand the parking situation, having suffered it myself, a number of times. That said, I don't see how it eases up at 8pm, so I still believe that people just know it's OK to come late.
4) Ticket Prices: I take your point. Unfortunately, I don't completely agree. At BB King, there is a $10 minimum. It's true that statistically, most people spend more (lord knows I do!), but it's not a requirement. When we saw Dave in NJ (for $25/ticket), there was no cover, and no dining option, so that was our total cost. But, there is a cost to deliver the food and service, that you don't bear. And, because of the tables, less people can sit there. So, it's not as simple as "other revenue opportunities" for the clubs.
My point was simply that as a patron of music, it feels like I pay a premium to see a show at TTM (or do you prefer TMH?). I continue to be willing to pay that premium, but I felt it should be noted.
5) Band comments: I think you're right. They can't possibly like the fact that a good number of people in the audience have just been "shocked". They certainly seem like nice people, who didn't necessarily handle the situation with aplomb...
6) Conclusion: I would feel very badly if in the end, you considered this type of show a failure, and discontinued it. Many more people (overwhelmingly) enjoyed the show than didn't. All I want is a clear description of what will happen. To me, it boils down to _expectation management_, nothing more. If I know what to expect, I can make an informed choice, and live with the consequences either way.
Again, my deepest appreciation for the time and care involved in your response!
Thanks Bjorn!
2-Also good.
3-It's not that it eases up, it's more the fact that at 8pm we still have a lobby of people trying to get in. For us, it's kind of a "get yelled at either way" type of situation...
4-All I know, is that we do not make a lot of profit from most shows. I would be shocked to learn that BB Kings does not make most of its profit from food and beverages. I realize that you CAN enjoy an evening there for less if you do not order anything, but I will wager a guess that most of their patrons do, or else there is no way their business model could work.
Here's a brief outline of a typical Music Hall show budget:
Artist fees can range from $6K to $40K, let's use $15,000 for this example.
Production costs (sound rentals, crew etc) $5,000. Marketing $4,000 Box Office costs/credit card fees $2,500 Additional labor, security, booker's fees etc $3,000.
Total expenses almost 30,000
Our average ticket price might be about $45 or so for a show like that, which means we would be in the red until we sell almost 700 tickets. If we sell out, we'll make a profit large enough to pay our monthly $6,000 utility bill...
We do make good money occasionally, but it is often the other way around, if we can't sell enough tickets, we lose money.
So, there is no premium charged for the pleasure of visiting TMH. Even if we tried, we could not MAKE enough money to restore this place from putting on shows, we have to raise it from our community.
We did throw some money in the jars for Work Vessels for Veterans, after Dave spoke about their organization on stage. We also took home a brochure to make a larger donation online. One of our top priorities for the past eight years has been directly supporting Vets, and current enlisted troops, as well as their families, whenever and wherever we can!
Per your goal of getting some different kind of music in your venue with a slightly different target audience. One suggestion would be to create a "series" that you can align concerts with. You are right that you invite the fans of any artist, but concert goers do rely on a venue as a form of editor in it's selection. When you, as editor, choose a different target you should let your customers (particularly regulars) know that.
A common version of this is doing children's concerts. In addition to being in the morning, they often have a series name. For example sake, Tarry Town Music Hall Children's Series. You see where this goes.
Just a thought...
We're regulars at the CMA Songwriters Series at Joe's Pub. (CMA == Country Music Association).
Just seeing the word SERIES in the title, makes you realize that you can find out details about the point of the show, especially if there has already been one.
Basically, you are 100% correct, caveat emptor. I did do research, in the sense that I listened to the band, and decided I liked their music a lot! What I didn't do was read enough to get a sense of what the audience is like.
Even so, I might not have believed that this particular venue would turn into the same kind of party, given that I had been there six times already, and no show was like that.
My hat's off to the hardy fans of YMSB who could turn an old staid theater into that kind of party. My basic complaint was that the show could have been billed differently.
C'est la vie. I still listened to the band the next day, and still liked it. I'm a big boy, and now that I've gotten it off my chest, I'm moving on. :-)
Perhaps I will see you at a future show, hopefully an outdoors one!
I don't mean to sound like an asshole sometimes, it just happens.
Bye,
Andrew
1) do all bands that have the word "String" in their title become (or start as) weed bands? String Cheese Incident is my 2nd data point.
2) sometimes I like to have a "party" time at a show, other times I want to listen in my chair. I'm equally annoyed when I expect one and get the other. Totally get it.
But, having come out of my reader I was amazed at the volume of comments. Wow!!
1) do all bands that have the word "String" in their title become (or start as) weed bands? String Cheese Incident is my 2nd data point.
2) sometimes I like to have a "party" time at a show, other times I want to listen in my chair. I'm equally annoyed when I expect one and get the other. Totally get it.
But, having come out of my reader I was amazed at the volume of comments. Wow!!
I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy your first (but hopefully not your last) YMSB experience. I stumbled across your post via google, and after reading it, I thought I would offer some comments.
I saw Yonder for the first time in February of 2005. Last night in Pittsburgh was my 39th show. I drove 5 hours to the show, danced (and yes, I mean -dance- ) for 3 hours, and then drove 5 hours back, because I had responsibilities on Wednesday. Thursday I will do the same thing with a 3 hour drive to and from Philadelphia. Friday I get to see them at home in DC, and Saturday I will take the train to and from Baltimore for my 42nd show. By year's end I will have seen YMSB 48 times. Yonder is, by far, my favorite band ever. And as someone who has seen members of the Grateful Dead perform 70-something times at 28 years old, I don't make that statement lightly. There is probably nothing in this world I love more than the music of Yonder Mountain, besides a few select few living beings. Even amongst the rabid fans of YMSB, I can be fairly described as unusually zealous, even obsessed. And if you met me at a show, this might be your sole impression of me.
I am also a law student at Georgetown. I clerk for one of the largest non-profit organizations in the world. I do volunteer work for a second non-profit run by a former professor of mine. In this manner, I am everything that society would deem thoroughly respectable. If you met me in every day life, you'd know nothing about my entertainment preferences. The same can be said of most of my closest friends that see Yonder as often as I do. One is a chemist and environmental engineer. Another is a senior engineer of energy efficiency at one of the nation's major power companies. A third teaches kindergarten. The couple I know with the highest times Yonder seen (120-something) are a nurse and a translator at a major hospital. If you met us at a Yonder show, you might make similar conclusions about us as you made about some of the people in the crowd the night you attended. Those judgments would have been incorrect about us, and they may well have been incorrect about some of the people in the crowd at your show.
There certainly can be a strong element of people who came just to party, drink, and smoke at a Yonder show, but I would suggest that these our the outliers who got drawn in because of Yonder's association with the jamband scene. It's a fair association, and it has its side effects, both positive and negative. Having experienced a fair bit of the scene in my day, I feel confident in saying that there is actually less of this at Yonder than other jambands. There is certainly less of it than at Grateful Dead shows. And that's not even a fair standard if our basis is who knows the words to how many songs - the Dead have 40 years of history behind song retention. If you think about your Dead shows, the average experience is that the whole crowd knows the words to 20-30 very popular songs, and only the real die-hards know the words to everything. That's true at a Yonder show too. Except the die-hards make up a greater proportion of the overall crowd. Along the same line, a far greater portion of the Grateful Dead audience is in a drug and alcohol induced haze than at a Yonder show. This is especially true if we limit the conversation to drugs.
Amongst those die-hards. Yes, we like to party. Yes, we like to get wild at a Yonder show. This is vacation for us. Some people go lay on a beach for six days. We drive across greater geographical regions to go see Yonder, and we get down partying with the best of them when we do. You can't write a biography with a chapter about how a person spends their leisure time.
Nor can you use a single experience with limited viewpoints to judge how much a fan base is into the music. I hate people who talk all show as much as you do. It drives me especially crazy because I usually seek out a spot in the back with the most dancing room, and this is where the talkers usually are. But the fact is, there is not much to be done about it. These people come to party and socialize, not to listen to music and boogie their asses off. Much as I wish it were different, it's not. The only thing to do is avoid them. I get that this wasn't the case at your show, with slotted seats. That's one of many, many reasons why a venue should never sell a show like this with slotted seats. 999/1000 Yonder shows are GA. It's unfortunate that you got stuck in a bad situation in one of the very very few that wasn't. Just bad luck.
In general however, the vast majority of a Yonder crowd loves the band, and are very much there to see the music. The fact that a lot of them like to party hard also isn't an indication otherwise. the two activities go hand in hand for them.
As for the band, I think you also have an incorrect perception. Having interacted in the jamband scene for about half of my life, I can tell you that Yonder offers more genuine appreciation for their fans, and the love we show, then any other band I have ever been around. They offer that thanks in their words and actions regularly. They regularly talk about it onstage. They respond to polite requests for songs if you catch them outside before a show (I'm six for six). They put together travel packages to make it simple and economically efficient for fans to get to major events like multi-night New Year's Eve bookings, and Jam in the Damn (Europe). They throw an intimate 3 day festival in the same forest hide-a-way every summer, North West String Summit, lovingly dubbed "the family gathering".
Sure, they seek the adulation of the crowd. Most musicians do. The fact that Jeff Austin, in particular, is very good at doing this, is part of the reason the band is successful, and more people have come to enjoy their music. It allows them to keep doing what they do. Again, let's use the Dead as a comparison. You say with seeming respect that the Dead often seemed blissfully unaware of the crowd adulation. Um, which members are we talking about? Largely when we talk about band image and interaction with crowd, we are talking about the "front-men" - those whoa ctually do that interacting. For the Dead, the front-men were Jerry and Bobby. Even serious Dead-heads make fun of how much Bob Weir revels in the rock star role, and tries to live up to it on stage, often to ridiculous levels. Ya, Jerry was often blissfully unaware of the crowd adulation, but that is because Jerry was usually so high that he was blissfully unaware of everything, and at times that included the quality of his music. If we count the rise of Phil & Friends to prominence in the post-Jerry era (for the record, if you are interested in seeing Dead music at it's musical peak in the post-Jerry world, Phil & Friends is the way to do it, not "The Dead")... Well, I've seen Phil & Friends 31 times. Phil is far from blissfully unaware. He often seems like a deer in headlights staring out at the adoring crowd. He remarks on his awe and appreciation of it regularly, and he cultivates it toward blood drives (and of course, good for him, for doing so). If we want to talk about the more holistic interaction of the band? The Grateful Dead were famous for passing out high grade, high dose acid to their early crowds.
I wasn't at your show, so I can't offer comment on Ben's joke that night, but I suspect that's all it was. Yonder knows the fan base that they attract, and to most of that people it's worth a giggle if someone comes to a Yonder show expecting a sit-down, tap your foot type of bluegrass experience. Having met Ben Kaufmann multiple times, and having shared over an hour of conversation with him once, I can tell you he's an incredibly nice man. And he has a deep appreciation of an extraordinarily wide array of music. That leads me to believe that, even taking his words at face value, they were intended as a light joke, and not an insult at the occasional unsuspecting older types who wander in. Further, Yonder does not control seating. The venue does. If a venue invites Yonder to play, and charges more for closer, or center-view seats, it is them who are doing the crowd wrong, not the band. The man from TTM who posted in the comments section seems quite nice, and I can only believe him when he says they didn't know what to expect. Their mistake, and I am sure they will correct it if they invite Yonder back. My point is that if a venue invites a band, particularly a venue with regulars that is inviting a band not necessarily in tune with those regulars, it is the venue's responsibility to market it properly to its customers, and to sell tickets in a system that is fair based on the typical crowds of the band. The band has neither the responsibility to oversee this, nor the ability to affect it.
This can be a challenge with YMSB. They appeal primarily to young people from the jamband scene. However, they have far more links with more traditional music of the folk and bluegrass form. Much like the Dead, this is a great part of their appeal. But also like the Dead (I once went to a Phil Lesh show with Willie Nelson, and a lot of Willie fans left in disgust once Phil's half of the show started), this bridge between generations can create occasional conflict. Unfortunately there is no easy way to settle this happily for everyone, unless both patrons and venue are well aware in advance, and plan accordingly. That simply isn't the case in most situations. And a lot of the older crowd wind up with a bad experience in small indoor venues, which is what Yonder plays in all non-summer seasons. The boisterous take over, and those who would like to enjoy a calm evening of blueegrass-ish music get trampled and squeezed and annoyed.
I would suggest that the answer for you is what you have already come up with. Go see Yonder at an outdoor venue. But in particular, I can recommend two. Go see Yonder at the Telluride bluegrass festival, or even better, at the Northwest String Summit. At Telluride you will enjoy an entire weekend of the finest that American bluegrass has to offer, both traditional and revolutionary. unfortunately, you will only get 1 Yonder set of the sort you want. Their other appearances at Telluride are a late night show at the Sheridan Opera House (one of the real ragers of the year for Yonder regulars, name of the venue aside) and another indoor show at the Convention Center. At the Northwest String Summit is where people who want to see Yonder in calm and peace, and people who want to party can really co-exist and everyone can get their fill of Yonder. As I mentioned above, it is a 3 day festival in the forest. It is held 25 minutes west of Portland Oregon in late July. There is a campground where you can stay on site. Most of it is dominated by people who want to party, but even in 95% of those sections, you can enjoy a quiet night's sleep, or quiet conversation with friends. The people who really want to party tend to congregate to certain sites where other campers have set up whole sites devoted to such activities. And if you really want to be in the campground but not party, there are designated areas for quiet camping and people with young children and the like. Yet another option - there are hotels 10 minutes down the road into town.
As for the performance itself, there is a stage built into the bottom of a natural hill, with a big dancing bowl carved into the base. People who want to party take their own little spot of the hill, or crowd into the front by the stage. People who want to drink can go into the roped off "beer garden". People, like me, who just want to dance till they drip sweat, take the back of the bowl. People who want to watch in peace and enjoy the music can spread out on the spacious hill at their leisure, and not be bothered by anyone.
This is the one event all year where Yonder -are- responsible for making sure that fans and venue mesh (their festival, from top to bottom), and where they -can- affect such things (through their close relationship with the people who run the site), and I promise you, if you come to the NWSS, you will quickly see that both band and venue go out of their away to assure a perfect experience for every single person who attends. One year (out of the many), family and quiet camp were moved to a more remote portion of the grounds. The idea was to make them even more isolated, and give it even more assurance of totally peaceful, hassle free camping. People complained that it left the older, and the young children, farther away from the venue, making getting around, and getting to and from camp quickly (there is music all day, every day, from various bands, with only short intermissions in between - Yonder plays 2 headline sets each night). ) more difficult, for those who were a)slowest and b)needed easy access the most. The next year family camp was moved back to a close-in, but still protected spot, and there it has remained.
I may have more to say, but I need to get some other things accomplished, so that will do it for now.
I only took the venue to task for booking them, clearly, not YMSB's fault!
I realized that he was joking about the ascot, but it came across as a way to egg the crowd on to be themselves, as if there was nothing different about this venue or audience. In other words, the band didn't do anything (including just staying out of it) to find a workable blend once the mis-match of band and venue occurred.
A few days later, they played an outdoor festival. I bothered to listen to the entire thing on archive.org. It was excellent (musically), but even there, the band was nasty about the IBMA's, and about the audience that just "didn't know what they were getting themselves into". Again, they wear it like a badge of honor. I can live with it, and it's working for them (commercially), but it's certainly not inclusive.
I really hope I didn't come across as judging people in their "real lives" by their behavior at the show. If I did, I apologize, as that wasn't my intent, or my normal style. The fact that people are good and decent in their normal lives still doesn't excuse them from being rude while "on vacation". :-)
I'm definitely willing to check them out in a different venue, I really do like their sound!
Finally, I was impressed that even the few fans who started off quite harshly in their comments to me, presumably wanting to dish out to me to same medicine they thought I was dishing, became extremely civil, helpful and informative, when we actually engaged in dialogue. That says more to me about YMSB's fans than just seeing them as a group in the audience.
Thanks again Michael, perhaps we'll cross paths at a future show! :-)